Logic and 'The Grove'

Critics attempt to negate Joseph Smith's vision in the grove experience because various accounts have been found some by Joseph himself.  In fact not only critics of the Restoration movement but the issue has even caused division within ranks of Saints as well.

If by logic we must reject Joseph Smith's grove experience based on differing accounts of the grove experience then are we are obligated as just Christians to reject the crucifixion experience for differing accounts as well?. Which is it? 

Inconsistencies appear in scripture often.  Does their existance though cause us to reject the message of the Bible?

For example:

What did the Chief priest really say?

Matthew

or

John
27:39 And Pilate wrote a title and put it on the cross and the writing was

27:40 JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS in letters of Greek and Latin and Hebrew.

27:41 And the chief priests said unto Pilate It should be written and set up over his head his accusation This is he that said he was Jesus the King of the Jews.

 

19:19 And Pilate wrote a title and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

19:20 This title then read many of the Jews; for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city; and it was written in Hebrew and Greek and Latin.

19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate Write not The King of the Jews; but that he said I am King of the Jews.

19:22 Pilate answered What I have written I have written.

 

OR

How about this:  What really was written by Pilate?

Mark John Luke
15:28 And it was the third hour when they crucified him.

15:29 And Pilate wrote his accusation and put it upon the cross THE KING OF THE JEWS.

 

19:19 And Pilate wrote a title and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

 

23:39 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek and Latin and Hebrew THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

 

 

One account says 'This is the King' another says 'Jesus of Nazareth the King' yet another says merely 'The King of the Jews.' 

Did it say anything at all?

Some accounts say Pilate wrote the title but Luke just said a superscription was written over him with no mention of Pilate. 

Was Pilate really there or not? 

What exactly did the personages say to Joseph?  Was there really two or just one? 

Do the Biblical variations of the crucifixion differ significantly from the grove experience in magnitude? 

Shouldn't we reject it all if we don't know? 

Hmmmm

Now do we really reject the crucifixion because the accounts do not agree?  Perhaps only one of the accounts was actually true and the other apostles were going from memory? Perhaps Matthew's or Mark's or Luke's or John's  were all mis-statements and details exist which were all recounted in error.  Will we ever know?  Does it change our faith in Christ as the risen Savior?  Was a doctrinal flaw introduced of eternal significance because inconsistencies exist?  If the logic holds true then countless Christians have been led astray because of the elusive truth contained in this precious passage. 

The problem is not that differing accounts logically prove an event false.  Rather the real problem becomes the logic we use to 'prove' the validity of an event.

We must use sound principles in applying sound logic to discern real truth and here is the underlying fallacy in the grove experience debate.  Our logic is not being applied evenly to events of the Latter-Day restoration as well as Biblical Christian history.  This is usually the tactic of how Satan stirs up doubt in the minds of believers.

Regarding the crucifixion I accept that a title was indeed placed over the head of Jesus. To some who witnessed it it bore the truth of His majesty; to others it was the target of His mockery.  What were the specific words written?  I may never know. 

But the inconsistency of the Biblical writers' accounts does not dilute my testimony that the event really and truly occurred nor should it dilute anyone else's testimony.  Where issues of doctrinal importance play a part in Salvation's plan God has marvelously spoken through two or three witnesses to make the issue clear.  (Ex.  See 2 Nephi chapter 13 for a clear explanation of the simple Doctrine of Christ if the New Testament writer's message was not always apparent.)

Likewise a young man who lacked wisdom sincerely sought his Heavenly Father in the woods of Palmyra New York.  From this boy's encounter with the Eternal Father the Lord poured out His Spirit in response and the world will never be the same.  Herein lies the truth of the issue.

 

Searching for Scriptures regarding Sexuality?

Searching for scriptures regarding sexuality and homosexuality? It is a popular search topic and with good reason: people want to know what God's word says about it.

While our culture has produced new words in our day describing issues of sexuality the spiritual and moral issues regarding sexuality are are age-old and are dealt with directly in scripture. Click Here To Find The Words Used in Scripture Regarding Sexuality

The topic of Sexuality and Homosexuality has faced the Christian Church in New ways. What does the world teach? What does the Word of God teach?

Read About Homosexuality and Scripture and the Pattern In All Things

New: Ancient Ethiopian document foretells Enoch's City/Zion!

Ethiopa

 

Israel Shall Call Upon Jesus

Jesus reveals himself to a notable Jewish scientist.

Dr. James Tour shares his life-changing testimony of Jesus here:

 

"Yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel;"

--Ether 1:112

 

"And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications; and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

--Zechariah 12:10 


Uplifting. Relevant. Restored Gospel Podcast.

Come join us in the conversation of things of eternity.

New podcasts weekly.

 


The Final Prophecy

The ultimate and last prophecy of this world is fulfilled when God dwells on earth.

All covenants and prophecies since the world began lead to this event, when Heaven returns to earth.

The Final Prophecy outlines the conditions and covenants that lead to that day, when the nations return to the true God, Jesus Christ, the Holy One of Israel.

Study the Final Prophecy Here

(PDF Version)

(Online Interactive Version)

 


 

Online Classes of The Final Prophecy

Follow 30 weeks of classes--class audio and powerpoint classes on The Final Prophecy Here!

 


Jesus Amazing Chiasm

Jesus's words spoken to the Nephites were written in an incredible multi-chapter chiasm. Click Here to understand.

 


Who is Jesus??

Who does the Book of Mormon teach that Jesus really is?. Click Here to understand.


Searching for Scriptures regarding Sexuality?

Searching for scriptures regarding sexuality and homosexuality? It is a popular search topic, and with good reason: people want to know what God's word says about it.

While our culture has produced new words in our day describing issues of sexuality, the spiritual and moral issues regarding sexuality are are age-old, and are dealt with directly in scripture. Click Here To Find The Words Used in Scripture Regarding Sexuality

The topic of Sexuality and Homosexuality has faced the Christian Church in New ways. What does the world teach? What does the Word of God teach?

Read About Homosexuality and Scripture and the Pattern In All Things

 

Watch your Thoughts,
  They become Words...
 
Watch your Words,
  They become Habits...
 
Watch your Habits
  They become Character...
 
Watch your Character,
  It becomes your Destiny.